Lost again

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Mistywing
Site Moderator
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:59 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 pm

dmc84 wrote:The office season 4 originally aired with 14 episodes.
szsori wrote:The Office
Season 4's double episodes are listed that way because NBC's official website lists the episodes as 401, 403, 405, etc indicating that they aren't single entries. This also coincides with other TV site listings.
It's also his decision. From 2011, not 2015 like your web archive.
dmc84
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm

Mistywing wrote:
dmc84 wrote:The office season 4 originally aired with 14 episodes.
szsori wrote:The Office
Season 4's double episodes are listed that way because NBC's official website lists the episodes as 401, 403, 405, etc indicating that they aren't single entries. This also coincides with other TV site listings.
It's also his decision. From 2011, not 2015 like your web archive.
Ok but The Office 418 is split to 418 and 419, with no indication that 419 exists because there was no 420 as evidence, how do we know that the office didn't have double episodes at the start of the season and a single long season finally. Lost is 124 shouldn't it then be split to 124 and 125, lost is miss-numbered because it doesn't have other double episodes as evidence?
dmc84
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:14 pm

Sorry NBC changed there website and so url was different, this is web archive as close to time of release for episode 4018 (no indication of an episode 4019): https://web.archive.org/web/20081022170 ... son4/4018/
dmc84
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:33 pm

In addition, if you are using the episode number from their website Lost season one has 23 not 24 (or 25 as i and every other preferred source think) episodes,
S01E01 is 100, S01E02 is 100b, and S01E03 is 101... they continue as expected from there
https://web.archive.org/web/20060104095 ... /100b.html
Now it aired over 2 dates but ABC list it as the same episode but ... 1 - 120 min episode that aired over 2 dates. So are episodes defined by the content creators like your claiming? ABC defined it as a single episode that aired over 2 dates not 2 episodes.
I hope you see the logic that the content creator can categorise content in a way in which no reasonable person would and yes at these times look at other sources.
eherberg
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:17 am

The entry won't change -- so somehow you'll have to find a way to live with it. Yes - often other sources will have different entries. If using the definition of how it aired and/or was listed at the time - it doesn't make them correct. IMDB is littered with errors that are entered based on disc ordering. Even network listings aren't necessarily correct and in some cases commonly make changes retroactively - which is why the default is as-they-aired. Scripps/Discovery are on the verge of not being considered valid sources anymore due to their common retroactive renumbering. Your example of 'Lost' is no different than 'The Good Place'. Production-wise, it may be 2 episodes. I'm sure on streaming/DVD it will be released as 2 episodes. But they aired it as an hour-long season premiere - so here it is listed as a single episode.
Mistywing
Site Moderator
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:59 pm

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am

It seems you found something close to the sources of information used to make these decisions.
Unfortunately it appears the interpretation made at the time is different than yours. That is really all I can say.

I have not personally watched The Office (US) but if "Goodbye Toby" is an episode with a similar structure to any of the other double episodes presented beforehand, I can understand wanting to provide some uniformity in the data presented by also dividing it despite there being no "4019" on the site. It's something you could judge pretty much only if you watched as it aired I think. The site is obviously skipping numbers so it's definitely possible to extrapolate skipping "4019."

For Lost, there's literally 24 episodes on the page.
Coco
Site Admin
Posts: 2472
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:06 am

As the mods have told you Lost will not be changing. The decision is final and isn't up for further discussion.
Please don't PM me. Post in the forums instead unless there is a very good reason for a PM or I won't respond.
dmc84
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:03 am

eherberg wrote:The entry won't change -- so somehow you'll have to find a way to live with it. Yes - often other sources will have different entries. If using the definition of how it aired and/or was listed at the time - it doesn't make them correct. IMDB is littered with errors that are entered based on disc ordering. Even network listings aren't necessarily correct and in some cases commonly make changes retroactively - which is why the default is as-they-aired. Scripps/Discovery are on the verge of not being considered valid sources anymore due to their common retroactive renumbering. Your example of 'Lost' is no different than 'The Good Place'. Production-wise, it may be 2 episodes. I'm sure on streaming/DVD it will be released as 2 episodes. But they aired it as an hour-long season premiere - so here it is listed as a single episode.
Don't worry i'll soldier on and find a way not to kill myself and live with this.
I have a preference for the series over how a network airs a show based on ad revenue, other networks shows at the time, empty time slots and other corporate decisions that have little to do with a show and everything to do with the money they make, so to me retroactive renumbering of episodes is actually smart because it takes the bias network factor out.

And yes S03E01 of the good place is the same, and i feel like your making the same point as me but arguing the other side. Yes shows develop episodes of a standard length to accommodate specific time slots, you never see a series that normally has a 1hr time slot air in 30min slots over 2 dates. and for that reason i think it makes sense to split these questionable episodes.
dmc84
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:07 am

Mistywing wrote:It seems you found something close to the sources of information used to make these decisions.
Unfortunately it appears the interpretation made at the time is different than yours. That is really all I can say.

I have not personally watched The Office (US) but if "Goodbye Toby" is an episode with a similar structure to any of the other double episodes presented beforehand, I can understand wanting to provide some uniformity in the data presented by also dividing it despite there being no "4019" on the site. It's something you could judge pretty much only if you watched as it aired I think. The site is obviously skipping numbers so it's definitely possible to extrapolate skipping "4019."

For Lost, there's literally 24 episodes on the page.
I understand, and honestly not arguing for any situation that takes a show which produces 20 min episodes and defining 2 of these as 1 based on how it aired, i was just contrasting it for likeness.
Thanks for listening anyway :D
dmc84
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:31 am

Coco wrote:As the mods have told you Lost will not be changing. The decision is final and isn't up for further discussion.
My understanding was the whole point of this sub was to have admins review policy as an appeal to a mods decision to change based on the rules, doesn't really feel like though.
I don't know if you even read my points but thanks @Coco anyway for a 'decision' on reviewing Lost.


-TV shows are not organised into episodes based on things like normal time slots and production, even if they air 2 at once.
-Hundreds of people involved in the production of a show have to make them standardised eg 20 or 40min for example, but because the network airs them together for whatever corporate interest they choose, thetvdb "community" goes with the executives, the same a-holes who cancel shows between seasons leaving the community pissed and with out a satisfying ending.

Just to be clear so i don't try and use logic on other shows in the future (like the good place): Its not about the standard of the TV Show but about the networks use of single or double time slots for that given week?
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