Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Discussion regarding locked series.
Read the instructions at the top of the forum before making a post!
Forum rules
All requests to modify unlocked entries - with the exception of series titles - will immediately be marked Resolved.

Please read our rules and our series-specific information before posting.
Specials Guidelines are available here.
Please link to the series/episode page and your sources.
Wikipedia is a good starting point for searches, but it WILL NOT be considered a valid reason for requesting a change.

In addition the following items are not acceptable reasoning for a request: scene/torrent/fansub releases, sickbeard/couch potato/etc, re-airings in another country (or new channel), and once again wikipedia.


Note: Requests to unlock a series will be denied as all series locks are in place for a good reason. Please indicate which changes you are needing to see made and cite valid sources as mentioned above. Thank you
hikaricore
Gaius Baltar
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:28 am

Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby hikaricore » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:28 pm

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what does and does not qualify as a special on TheTVDB.
So because of a complete lack of a concise overview on the topic I've decided to spell it all out as best I can here.


Televison Series
In order to qualify for addition to the specials section of a television series the video in question MUST have either aired on tv or have been streamed on the official series website or network website. The only exceptions to this are pilots and episodes that weren't aired for various reasons, including but not limited to: series cancellation, being banned due to content, or just good old greed to sell dvd/blurays. As a general rule we don't allow related movies to be listed in the specials, however they're all over the site and they clearly aren't going anywhere. It's widely debatable as to if these belong on the site or not, but I personally will not remove them. A good example is the Firefly movie Serenity. This film is a direct continuation of the series and has aired on television a number of times, seems like a bit of a grey area imho so best to just let it be. Another moderator or an admin is welcome to override me on that statement, but it's not going to change my view on the subject. Perhaps on the new site we'll be able to directly link items in specials to other content sites such as themoviedb so that users who aren't using software that already supports linking such as Xbmc can keep their collections nice and organized. Now don't get me wrong, if you go and try to add the recent live action GI Joe film to the classic 80s cartoon as a special, I will probably smack you. But I digress.. all other content such as extras on dvds which are not part of the storyline (bloopers, making ofs, deleted scenes, cast interviews, etc) DO NOT belong on here unless again as I said at the beginning of this section they aired on television or were streamed on the official series website. I don't care what kind of content you find on fanblogs and youtube, that doesn't count so don't even try and make claims based on it. Directors cuts of individual episodes are also not allowed, however exceptions may be made in strange cases. Now let me lay it all out again for those who do not like to read...

Allowed: Aired or official streamed special content (such as webisodes), pilots, unaired episodes. (including OVAs/ONAs/omakes/side stories/re-tellings/recap episodes (if unnumbered or numbered with a decimal such as 4.5)/etc for anime)
Not Allowed: Director's/Extended Cuts and DVD extras such as: Bloopers, Making Ofs, Deleted Scenes, Cast Interviews (unless streamed or aired) also not permitted are compilations of seasons merging every episode into one long video featuring little to no changes. (IE: Star Wars Clone Wars 2003)
Grey Area: Movies that are a direct continuation of a series or occur within the series, I don't disagree with their listing but that's just me.


Web Series
Ok internet based series are an entirely different lifeform than traditional television series. With a webseries the entire airing platform is the content creator's various sites such as their main webpage, twitter, youtube, and facebook pages. Content (within reason) found on any of the official release sites for a webseries may be added to specials, however I do ask that you do the work and add the content correctly. This includes overviews, "air" dates, thumbnails, etc. With the content online and usually described in full right on the official site there is no excuse for this to not be entered. Don't be lazy it pisses me off. Things you should not add include but are not limited to fan videos such as remixes, replies/complaints to episodes, etc. Unless in the odd case that the creators of the series specifically link to such content or add it to their own youtube channel, just keep this kind of crap out of the listings.

Allowed: Streamed content found on the official series website/facebook/twitter/youtube/etc.
Not Allowed: Fan content which is not officially recognized or linked to on the aforementioned official sites.
Grey Area: There isn't much of a grey area currently for web based content... yet.


##WORK IN PROGRESS##
This topic will be unlocked for a short time incase I've missed anything, but after that replies will be purged and it will be relocked.

crash123
Former Moderator
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:13 pm

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby crash123 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:08 pm

Good job hikaricore. Do we want to add this to the wiki? Maybe take out the personal voice and talk of the new website?

I can do it for you if you don't have the time.

hikaricore
Gaius Baltar
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:28 am

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby hikaricore » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:23 pm

Thanks. I'd say we let it be for a while that way the other mods and the admins can chime in on the topic if they wish to. Then if no one challenges anything I've said we go from there. ^_^

Veng3r
Former Moderator
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:13 am
Location: The Moon

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby Veng3r » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:35 pm

hikaricore wrote:Televison Series
In order to qualify for addition to the specials section of a television series the video in question MUST have either aired on tv or have been streamed on the official series website or network website. The only exceptions to this are pilots and episodes that weren't aired for various reasons, including but not limited to: series cancellation, being banned due to content, or just good old greed to sell dvd/blurays.
What's the consensus on entering air dates for episodes that were not actually aired? I.E. episodes added to sell an extra set of a DVD for example? I'm thinking for the sake of accuracy this field should be left blank as the episode didn't actually air, or should the DVD release date be used as the aired date so fields look consistent and it doesn't appear that we are missing information? Cheers.

EDIT: What about shorts? For example The Blue Planet (Short) (Brief short summarizing the scope of the series). I'm assuming these would fall under the scope of DVD extras. Maybe add those to this list too, just to be as specific as possible.
hikaricore »Aug 28, 2011 wrote:Official listing trumps all. Don't like it? Email fox about their shit being wrong.
hikaricore »Sept 30, 2010 wrote:I'll try to treat to animals in our zoo a little better in the future.

hikaricore
Gaius Baltar
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:28 am

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby hikaricore » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:51 pm

Generally for the sake of completeness and sanity I enter the release date of the the media, of course this would be changed if/when said episode(s) ever air. A good example of this is the It's Always Sunny christmas special which was released on dvd several month before it actually aired on tv. At the time the release date was used and then changed to the air date upon that occasion. Otherwise down the line you end up with a cluttered mess and no indication of the order it should be in. (there's only so much good the airs before/after fields can do sometimes) This is most notable when someone goes and dumps a whole bunch of garbage in specials or rearranges them. >.>

Veng3r
Former Moderator
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:13 am
Location: The Moon

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby Veng3r » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:57 pm

hikaricore wrote:Generally for the sake of completeness and sanity I enter the release date of the the media, of course this would be changed if/when said episode(s) ever air.
Agreed. Makes sense.
hikaricore »Aug 28, 2011 wrote:Official listing trumps all. Don't like it? Email fox about their shit being wrong.
hikaricore »Sept 30, 2010 wrote:I'll try to treat to animals in our zoo a little better in the future.

radamsearcy
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:13 pm

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby radamsearcy » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:15 am

I've noticed some series that you have locked yourself that contain 'specials' that are definitely strictly from extras on video releases such as deleted scenes.

The current example I have been using is Life (2009), the BBC documentary narrated by Oprah in the states and Attenborough across the pond. You have locked the special season which clearly contains, even saying so in the episode description, deleted scenes along with other Blu Ray content. I don't have a problem with this personally it just seems you are picking and choosing what you want to include and what you don't. There are other television shows that I've noticed you have locked without containing DVD/Blu Ray extras. I have since found a work around that I use to add DVD/Blu Ray extras that this database does not contain. This was after a bit of frustration seeing that I could not add this content on my own as you had locked it.

I just don't really understand why lock out the opportunity to include said extras. If I want to store all my media on my HDD so that I don't have to deal with discs then why shouldn't I (and others) be able to take advantage of this database by adding these extras so that my (and others) Media PC Software (XBMC in my case) can include these in the 'specials' section.

I understand you have a system that you want to stick to but it seems you are not. You've said if you've locked it it's for a reason so I assume a locked season is 'fixed' by you or another admin. I guess all I'm looking for is consistency.

Why not allow the addition of special features? They can be in the database so that people who take the time to add them to their collection can pull the info from the site. For those who choose not to include them it's really a moot point for them. I personally do not include all the extras but some I do. I'm a Lost fanatic so I've included those in my collection, I'm content with not having the extras for Fresh Prince so I didn't bother with those extras. I just can't see a good reason to not allow the opportunity to include extras for those who want them.

hikaricore
Gaius Baltar
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:28 am

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby hikaricore » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:31 am

When I locked Life, I did it at the series level after people said they had fixed it for the thousandth time (or possibly upon adding a title in another language/alias) and never having looked at the specials. (this happens occasionally when I'm in a hurry) It is also worth mentioning that at one time there was a bug with the site code which could be exploited to add things to a locked series, this has long since been patched but it doesn't change the fact that it was abused by a few assholes. We don't actually allow this content, but it occasionally slips by us and we really can't do a damn thing about it until someone informs us.

ipaine
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:54 pm

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby ipaine » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:43 pm

I am just wondering what the actual reasoning is behind this. I think what got me was Star Trek: TNG. I had all the episodes and I had all the specials from the DVDs listed and everything was nice and neat. Now of course it is all gone and after reading into it I see that all of those are not allowed anymore. Frankly I just don't get it. They are specials directly related to the TV show. They are not the movies that were made, although from your description the movies would be allowed as they have all aired on TV by now and do continue the story of TNG.

Does this not seem a little backwards? Sure I get that there are plenty of problems with certain series with regards to specials but I just don't see how these dvd specials that come with the seasons of the tv show are now not considered specials. What is worse is that there is nowhere like this that has the information. The movies and such there are plenty of other sites to get the info, but these are specials of the TV show. I just don't see how they can be considered anything else.

I know that this is your decision as mods and that so I'm not exactly demanding you change it or anything but I do want you to consider what is a special. This site has been a great resource for me in the past and do hope it continues to be, but I have found myself having to create more and more manual entries in my mediaportal since less and less is being included here. I'm just saying that I feel like this is taking a step backwards. Anyways that is enough of my opinion, I'm off to create about 50 or so manual entries I didn't have to before.

szsori
Site Admin
Posts: 2339
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:23 pm

Re: Specials: The Definitive Guide (09/12/2011)

Postby szsori » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:50 pm

My decision as an owner on this matter, actually. :)

It was originally based on DVD specials being added back when the site was first getting started. Many series have hundreds of specials that are DVD-only, especially if the series is on a long time. The specials pages were getting to be a few hundred episodes in length and since there's no real order for those specials, people were often adding duplicates. We were also getting specials like "Season 1 DVD Main Menu" and in some cases it made as much sense as the DVD content being included.

Right now it's easier to just allow content that's only been shown on TV, since a handful of our API's, reports, and rules work primarily off the air date. It simplifies a LOT of stuff and since we're lacking in time and resources right now, I have no plans to revise this rule until at least the new site is completed.