Ghost Hunters Season 12 "Beyond the Investigation"

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yemaozi
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:10 am

Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:44 pm

https://www.thetvdb.com/series/ghost-hunters/seasons/12

"Beyond the Investigation" was originally (and still is) listed in the special episodes section. Recently someone also added it as Season 12 Episode 4 and renumbered the following episodes in the season. I know I could just go renumber it back but would like to request that whichever outcome mods decide that it be locked so that this isn't a recurring issue. (Don't lock Suicide Hotel or later episodes as they have not yet been broadcast and the broadcast date for Suicide Hotel is still uncertain; different sites currently show different broadcast dates.)

I believe the Beyond the Investigation should be a special episode but to be fair I'll start with the reasons it should be an episode: A&E's official site lists it as an episode, and some scene groups number their episodes to reflect this.

Reasons it should not be an episode: 1) A&E is notorious for misnumbering things. See past discussions on Live PD or The First 48 for good examples. Even for this series they call it season 1 instead of season 12. 2) A&E also calls "Back on the Hunt" an episode instead of a special. If "Beyond the Investigation" is deemed an episode, "Back on the Hunt" would by the same criteria also be an episode. 3) The description says it's a special. 4) It doesn't follow the normal episode format of an investigation but contains cast interviews and contents of previous and future episodes.

5) The following episode listings either omit it or call it a special:

TV Guide does not list it as an episode (though the broadcast date of Suicide Hotel is wrong): https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/ghost-h ... s/1346059/
IMDB does not list it as an episode (though they call special "Back on the Hunt" episode 0): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0426697/ep ... =tttv_sa_1
Futon Critic lists it as a special without an episode number, though they haven't renumbered episodes since "Suicide Hotel" was postponed: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/ ... /listings/
Wikipedia does not list it as an episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... s_episodes

(As a side note someone named the 10/30 episode as "Season Finale" which conflicts with A&E's press release stating the season will have 20 episodes.)
yemaozi
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:10 am

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:04 pm

Some links got left out:
Official site: https://www.aetv.com/shows/ghost-hunters
Beyond the Investigation on the official site: https://www.aetv.com/shows/ghost-hunter ... /episode-4
eherberg
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:22 am

Other notes: The confusion is because A&E renumbered and included the 'Beyond the Investigation' episode after-the-fact. Unfortunately, Internet Archive doesn't have a snap to indicate this. Their only snapshots are from before the 1st episode aired and after 'Beyond' aired. I recall seeing this on the site - and for possible corroboration you'll notice in the Scene numbering the 'jump' in episode numbering -- indicating where the A&E retro-numbering took place.

I don't have a strong feeling about this. I would tend to believe it belongs in specials and ignore the retro-numbering 1 week later - but since it was only a week (and during the airing of the current season), I understand the argument that it could be considered more of a correction than a retro-numbering.An

For what it's worth -- Gracenote also doesn't have it as a regular episode - but also has a missing episode number where the episode would go.

Anyhoo -- for those of you who care about the entries for your libraries, no source seems to agree so we can make a call about which way to go. I lean towards special - but I also understand the argument for site correction. Any other compelling arguments?

Side note: For what it's worth - in my own library I have it as a regular episode, but that is only because of my wife's preferences. She watches a number of these 'Ghost' shows and had already indicated to me that she does *not* consider this program a continuation of the original series. So in my library, I have it as 'Ghost Hunters 2019' with a season starting at 1. She also prefers the episodes to be on 1 season 'list' -- so that's the way it is in my library. Hey -- it get's me a sweet home-cooked Sunday Breakfast to make my Emby library look like how she wants it to look. :-) Anybody who really disagrees with our classification here can, of course, name and number it however they want in their own libraries.
yemaozi
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:10 am

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:54 am

eherberg wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:22 am
Other notes: The confusion is because A&E renumbered and included the 'Beyond the Investigation' episode after-the-fact. Unfortunately, Internet Archive doesn't have a snap to indicate this. Their only snapshots are from before the 1st episode aired and after 'Beyond' aired. I recall seeing this on the site - and for possible corroboration you'll notice in the Scene numbering the 'jump' in episode numbering -- indicating where the A&E retro-numbering took place.
Good point. I forgot about this but recall it as well. I went back to check my own download logs and "The Cursed Castle" was indeed originally released on aetv's site on 9/12 as episode 4 and was replaced as episode 4 by "Beyond the Investigation" on 9/17. I check the sites of the shows I follow once a day so those release times should be accurate within 24 hours.
yemaozi
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:10 am

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:33 pm

yemaozi wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:44 pm
(As a side note someone named the 10/30 episode as "Season Finale" which conflicts with A&E's press release stating the season will have 20 episodes.)
Side note to the side note: Their official twitter account says next week's episode Hospital Horror will be the season finale: https://twitter.com/ghosthunters/ (So it would nice to have a determination by TVDB about whether "Beyond the Investigation" is a special or episode before season packs are made.)
eherberg
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:26 pm

I'll do a quick survey internally and see what people think. :-)

My own interpretation is that 5 days is a short enough grace period to allow for a bending of the no retro-numbering rule -- but we'll see if anybody disagrees (especially due to the content of the episode).
yemaozi
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:10 am

Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:37 pm

eherberg wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:26 pm
My own interpretation is that 5 days is a short enough grace period to allow for a bending of the no retro-numbering rule -- but we'll see if anybody disagrees (especially due to the content of the episode).
While AETV may have retro-numbered in 5 days, whoever renumbered TVDB waited almost a month, at which point five already broadcast episodes in total were retro-renumbered.
eherberg
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Just to follow-up on this: 'Beyond' is going to stay as a regular episode. Despite the content, every accepted source we have lists it as a regular episode. Rather than go down the path here with using subjective to determine episode placement - we're simply going to go with what (nearly) all of the accepted sources say and keep it as a regular.

Update made.
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