Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Series that require continual maintenance and / or aggressive cleanup.
calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:07 am

I've also got another one that is pretty interesting. Caillou. It appears that OVGuide was used. Everthing from Season 1 to Season 5 matches verbatim to OVGuide.com (Except some plot descriptions that I found online and added which may need removed because they came from a wiki, they were originally blank)

http://www.ovguide.com/tv/caillou.htm

TVGuide.com Has what OVGuide calls Season 2 start as Season 1. OVGuide also lists a few extra episodes under Season 2 that TVGuide.com calls Season 2. Starting at OVGuide Season 2 Episode 30 Celebrations. TVGuide.com lists that as Season 2 Episode 1 Celebrations.

OVGuide's Season 3 matches TVGuide.com until Episode 16 - Doing it Together!

OVGuide's Season 4 appears to match TVGuide.com

Now here is where it is interesting. OVGuide's Season 5 has multiple episodes per airing. Some are listed on TVGuide.com and some are not. TVGuide.com also show multiple episodes per airing but much more of them. Some of the titles of those shows are actually the same as what OVGuide was listing as Season 1 shows aired in 1998. Some are listed in OVGuide's season 5 but they are not aired in the same combination of shows.

Here is what I think is going on. There is evidence that Caillou started airing in 1998 (from listings on fan sites and wiki's, etc which also aren't accurate). However, I do not believe that was in the US. It appears according to TVGuide.com it started airing in the US in 2000. OVGuide's screenshots for Season 1 have non-english text on them. I also have noticed OVGuide may not be the most accurate. I gather from the forums that TVGuide.com is more accurate.

So what do we do in a situation like this? Make our listings match TVGuide.com and label this series as US only? What about all of the new episodes that are showing up recently? (btw it must not be on PBS because I haven't recorded any of these new multiple episode shows yet).

Here is TVGuide.com's listing for Caillou.

http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/caillou/episodes/194952

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:31 am

I should add that TVGuide.com also matches the official website listing up to season 4.

http://www.caillou.com/parentsteachers/prog_recap.shtml

I'm up for fixing this as soon as I get confirmation that you want it to match TVGuide.com and the official site. It is obvious the extra episodes listed do exist but there isn't any evidence that I can find that they were actually aired on TV at least in the US.

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:50 am

Sheesh. Don't lock the Arthur stuff yet. I have some more questions about that as well. lol Season 7

http://www.thetvdb.com/?tab=season&seri ... 7831&lid=7

The episode order was taken from TV.com. It doesn't match TVGuide.com but the dates do match. Also there is a two part episode "Elwood City Turns 100" that TVGuide.com lists as two different episodes. We did not. That makes our episode numbering not match after that episode. I assume we make an exception for that. Not sure.

Also TVGuide.com doesn't seem to match IMDB.com for the air dates of specials. Who is considered correct?

BTW TVGuide.com seems to match the official website episode guide pretty well.
http://www.pbs.org/parents/arthur/sched ... sc1_3.html

BTW Not sure where to put these questions since they are arising from me splitting episodes and finding issues with numbering. I put them in here to keep it all together. I think I am done for the day until I figure out what is the correct way to deal with the issues that I have found.

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:34 am

Sorry for all the questions but I have one more. It seems that splitting them has messed a few things up. The "Guest Stars" field could now be inaccurate because it is not known which episode the guest start was in (unless I research and find out for each episode). The same can be said for the "Writer" field. Also I see differences in the "Production Code" field. It isn't always filled in though. Is the official website a good source for that? For example Arthur would list as follows:

Arthur #101

Does that mean the production code is 101?

Another issue is absolute numbering (Arthur Seasons 1-5 have them but it pretty much stopped after those). What determines that? Splitting the episodes probably messed that up as well. If I can get a good idea of how to fix them, I will go ahead and try that.

I have also taken plot descriptions (for those that had it blank) from various sources (mainly TV.com) before I stumbled upon the actual official site. Is the official site preferred for plot descriptions even if it is different from other sites like TV.com, IMDB.com and Wikis? I'm guessing the official site is at least more consistent and accurate however it usually doesn't list the newest seasons so for those the only option would be TV.com or other sources. Which is preferred for episode descriptions, TV.com, IMDB.com or other sites like TVRage.com? It appears they are mostly entered by users on those sites. I have noticed TVGuide.com usually has a very short and basic description.

This gets pretty messy I am noticing. Lots of heated debates on the site on what is correct as well. I'm sure eventually someone will raise a fuss about mucking with a series they entered. I just want to make sure the changes I make are supported and accurate.

These questions may be good opportunity to add more detail to the wiki. I can't seem to get a good answer from the wiki for them.

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:28 pm

Alright I think I have a better idea of what is going on with Caillou. If you look at this link you will see that Seasons 2, 3 (for some reason it is duplicates of Season 2), and 4 all contain multiple story lines but instead of being listed with their separate titles, a single title is given to all of those story lines. They all have a "theme". It's much like I have already ran into with VeggieTales.

http://www.caillou.com/parentsteachers/ ... cap2.shtml

If you look at the TVGuide.com list, all of the recent shows are split up. The majority of those can be found by looking at the above link. There are some new ones in there though.

http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/caillou/episodes/194952

OVGuide.com has season 5 listed with the separate episode titles but I'm not sure of the accuracy. If you look at the descriptions for Season 5 both at the TVGuide.com site and also at this link.

http://www.ket.org/tvschedules/series.e ... hp?id=CAIU

You will see that the OVGuide episode titles for Season 5 are going along with the episode descriptions in TVGuide.com and the KET site. The more I look at it, the more I am starting to think that OVGuide is right. TVGuide.com is also listing some of the Season 1 episodes listed under OVGuide as combined with other episodes and at least at first glance, I have seen some that fall into the same order as the ones listed under Season 1 of OVGuide which appear to be split already.

As you can see this causes confusion and may end up causing people to enter duplicate episodes as a new series thinking they are new when in fact they are not. They are just being aired in different combinations than they originally were.

I am wondering if I can create a separate series for now and try putting all of these together as individual episodes using all of the sources combined and see how it looks. I don't want to ruin what has already been put together so I want to make sure it all looks good this way first. It is quite a change but I think it will work better in the end and I think this is why this site splits up episodes to begin with. Let me know what I can do.

I believe right now Caillou has both split episodes (Season 1 and possibly parts of Season 2) and non-split episodes (Seasons 3, 4, and 5) and this happened because they started giving the groups of episodes a single name representing a "theme" for the group of shows.

I have also looked at my recordings of Caillou and have even noticed that there are separate stories that weren't in the original group of stories that were aired so my episodes names aren't correct and won't match the plot descriptions fully. I guess it depends on what channel it airs on. Some channels always air the original combination and other channels air them in different combinations.

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:40 pm

Looking further into Caillou it appears Season 1 was an "original" series as evidenced in the plot descriptions of Season 2. The plot descriptions of season 2 contain the individual episode titles and some were noted that they were lifted from the original series so some of the stuff from Season 1 is duplicated and aired within the Season 2 episodes. If we create two different series of Caillou one original and one new, we will match the TVGuide.com and the official websites better with episode numbering of the new series.

Something else to mention. If we were to split up the episodes for Caillou, then we will end up with short 2-5 min episodes. They are all pretty short.

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:14 pm

Another good site I have found that seems to be pretty accurate.

http://www.caillou.cc/caillou-episode-g ... son-2.html

Take a look at Episode 2 - Summertime. "Caillou at the Beach" was lifted from the original series. That's what I mean by duplicates. There are several episodes this site has listed in Season 1 which are duplicated and embedded within episodes of Season 2 and possibly even other Seasons. I wouldn't know unless I tried to take a separate series and put this together with the individual episodes split and see what it looks like.

furby
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Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby furby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:58 am

That's a lot of posts caclon79 :D I'll read them and try and answer your questions later. Have locked the series you've completed
Please link to the series/episode page and your sources. Wikipedia is NOT a valid source.

calcon79
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby calcon79 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:15 pm

Ok I now have an even better handle on Caillou. All of the split title names cannot be considered 100% accurate (they are not ALL listed on the official site). I made my own list and have a very good idea. I now think it's probably best to keep the episode name as single (unless you think it is better otherwise). The shows aren't like others where it is obvious where the splits happen. It will be difficult to split up the shows because of this.

So here is what I think if it means anything.

- Specials has a bunch of episodes that need removed starting from 8 to 52. They definitely don't belong. I also think 0-7 potentially don't belong as well. They are not listed as specials on any of the sites I have seen. They look like they are possibly DVD episodes.

http://www.thetvdb.com/?tab=season&seri ... 5410&lid=7

- Season 1 is about as accurate as you can make it. There is more than one source that lists these episodes besides OVGuide.com. I think they are fine. However, it might be good to have those as an "original" series if that sort of thing is supported on this site. The reason for this is the shows in season 1 (except for three of them) are embedded into episodes of what is listed as season 2 on the site. The official sites list our season 2 as season 1. I don't know if we can assume that the "re-aired" episodes are exactly the same as the originals. I'm fine with leaving it as is but just want to mention it in case it isn't considered correct.

http://www.thetvdb.com/?tab=season&seri ... 3986&lid=7

- Season 2 has some episodes that I have either determined are duplicates that were aired as part of an "officially" listed episode, or I have not found them anywhere in a google search, only on OVGuide.com so I question the accuracy of them. Those episodes are 40, and 42-46. Also 47-100 are blank and need deleted. All others are listed on multiple sites.

http://www.thetvdb.com/?tab=season&seri ... 3987&lid=7

- Season 3 has some episodes that I have either determined are duplicates that were aired as part of an "officially" listed episode, or I have not found them anywhere in a google search, only on OVGuide.com so I question the accuracy of them. Those episodes are 17-36 and 49. Also 38-53 are blank and need deleted. All others are listed on multiple sites and seem to be accurate.

http://www.thetvdb.com/?tab=season&seri ... 3988&lid=7

- Season 4 appears to be accurate except 21-23 are duplicates that have been aired inside of an "official" episode. I also think Episode 24 - Caillou's Holiday Movie may not belong as an episode but as a special listed under season 4 (which is where it is listed on other sites)

- Season 5 is listed with names that show all of the individual episodes. There is an official episode title that is found on both TVGuide.com and on KET.org. I would recommend replacing the titles with the official title.

Of course if you believe I should split up the episodes to the individual names, I would be happy to provide you with my list I created showing all of the episodes split up. There are lots of duplicates this way so many of the episodes in season 2 will not be listed best they are listed in season 1. Either that or make season 1 a separate series.

Let me know what is the best way to deal with this series. Technically the only thing that matters for me is fixing the names in season 5. The episodes I record will most likely only fall into the ones listed on the official sites and those are all listed in the correct order. There are differences in what episodes belong in what season between these sites though.

dd314159
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Location: Illinois

Re: Shows that need to be split according to storyline

Postby dd314159 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:16 am

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