Policy regarding workout / exercise series?

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ExcerciseCoach
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:26 pm

Hi,

I am brand new and I don't want to start making updates without clarifying a seemingly simple question. What is the policy regarding how to enter and classify workout / exercise series? I have read the TVDB Bible and I do not see this topic addressed.

I did a search on these forums, and per this thread, these types of series are not allowed:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24693&p=84676&hilit ... out#p84676
"DVD only content is not permitted in any capicity. If added they would be / are removed from the database. Use local NFO files on your side to add this type of content."

However I joined here because I have built up a collection of workout series videos, and I am starting to use Plex to manage them (and also evaluating Emby and Jellyfin), and the advice in most of the forums for these media programs is to classify them as "TV shows" - because most of the time they come packaged (in DVD or streaming) similar to a TV series in a sense that they have different "episodes" that you then do in a certain sequence.

In fact it was a thread in Reddit regarding Plex that led me to TVDB.com, where a user there explained how in Plex he had set up his Fitness series vidoes as "TV shows". For example this person took the "Focus T25" workout programand in TVDB created it as a "TV show| with 3 Seasons. He made Season 1 contain the 6 videos for the "alpha" phase, Season 2 contain the 7 videos for the "beta" phase, and Season 3 contain the 4 videos for the "gamma" phase:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/ ... _metadata/
So I had this all working in Plex last week, and somehow in the last few days, it stopped working. The agent it pointed to tvdb.com and I think it broke because this link, quoted in the thread above, no longer works (gives a 404 error):
https://www.thetvdb.com/series/focus-t2 ... s/official

And I see that someone has converted T25 to make each video its own "Movie" (no longer a TV series":
https://www.thetvdb.com/movies/focus-t2 ... dy-circuit
https://www.thetvdb.com/movies/focus-t2 ... namic-core
https://www.thetvdb.com/movies/focus-t2 ... me-circuit

So I am confused, if workout series are allowed, are they to be put in as TV shows or individual "movies"? Frankly, they sure seem more like a TV series to me. In fact many of these series now have up to 100 "episodes" (e.g. MM100) so it would be a pain in Plex to have to consider them each as their own "movie", plus they then would not be grouped together. On the other hand, because these workout programs are releases on one date, each "episode" does not have an "air date" (because it was never aired on TV)- and thus it then becomes a bit arbitrary what constitutes a "season". So for example the person above created 3 "season" out of T25, which appear nicely in Plex, but strictly speaking, it probably should have been entered into TVDB as a single season with all episodes in that season, and having the same airdate.

Whatever the policy is, it would be good to know, and then edit/update existing entries to match the policy. So in the above case, it seems someone has split the series into individually labelled episodes. However, I can find at least 2 example of other
workout series which are in fact entered as TV shows with episodes grouped together:

Series ID 362113 - has a number of episodes
https://www.thetvdb.com/series/power-90

Series ID 367008 has 5 episodes
https://www.thetvdb.com/series/hip-hop-abs

Bottom line, I would like to know what the policy is - is this content allowed? If so, how is it to be put in - individual episodes (could be painful) or as a TV series? Then, if it is to be put in as a TV series, what determines what constitutes a "season"? Videos that were released on the same date, or groups of episodes that belong to the same workout "phase" according to the workout calendar?

Sorry for the long post - but I thought it would be helpful to get clarification first before making a slew of updates that then get changed or reversed by the moderators.
ohtorx

Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:05 pm

I agree with ExcerciseCoach, these may have started out as DVD only but now are available via streaming series. Just like Netflix and other services, no they were not a conventional tv show, but they have multiple episodes, and as referenced different seasons / levels.

I would propose that they be allowed as TV shows or add them as a trial to a sports category like WWE and UFC viewtopic.php?f=41&t=58617
ChristyEzzell
Site Admin
Posts: 1509
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:01 pm

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:50 am

ohtorx wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:05 pm
I agree with ExcerciseCoach, these may have started out as DVD only but now are available via streaming series. Just like Netflix and other services, no they were not a conventional tv show, but they have multiple episodes, and as referenced different seasons / levels.

I would propose that they be allowed as TV shows or add them as a trial to a sports category like WWE and UFC viewtopic.php?f=41&t=58617
If it is released with a season or episode structure it should be allowed as a series.

If it was released as a single stand-alone video it should be a movie.

If it was released on a platform like YouTube and it sticks to our webseries guidelines, it should be added as a series.

We can define some examples of this in the bible.
ExcerciseCoach
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:02 pm

Hey All,

I hadn't gotten a response for a long time so I got a little discouraged, and I didn't check back in until now! Wow, this is cool that there may be some allowance to include these type of series!! I am happy to help input them - but sure let's think a little more about how it would work?

I think early on (Jane Fonda?), and in some cases still there are single video workouts - I think Jillian Michaels 30 day shred is a single DVD, although it may contain various workout - but yes by and large almost everything is being published as a "series" these days, even if its short (only a handful of workouts, 2-5).

Many DVD workout videos came out in series (e.g. P90X), and sometimes the DVD's were numbered and the sequence is clear or relatively clear. Then at least some vendors would come out with "bonus" or "deluxe" additional workouts, and it would need to be decided how those get handled - either part of the original series? Or made to be a separate "season"? I'll check what you do know with TV shows- since they also sometimes have bonus or "special edition" (or re-union) episodes tacked on later on.
Also - as I think I mentioned before - some people might prefer to make "seasons' out of various workout "phases" or one could have a rule that if a set of videos was released at the same time (in a package) one must keep them together as a season, regardless.

Now that we are in the digital age and many are online or in streaming format, because publishers don't have to press DVD's any more, there seems to be a proliferation of programs with TONS of workouts, some up to 80 or 100 episodes per program! This is where it would really help to be able to have them handled here -- because they really are more like TV shows (episodic) than movies. In some cases the order is crystal clear (e.g. day 1 of 80 days) but in others it isn't (eg leg day, arm day, back day) and maybe order would be arbitrary, OR one could have a rule that the order is how they appear at the vendor's streaming site (or on youtube). BTW I notice vendors do not necessarily remember or follow their own order - I have seen them release various episodes over a sequence of dates (kind of like the air date of a tv series) and then on their site they are in some other order.

Finally there is at least one workout series that I know of that is actually in season form - it has 24 workouts called Season 1, Episode 1etc. That makes it easy (although in this case they put a non-related interview as one episode, and a fitness test in season 2, well nobody's perfect)

Ok take care, let me know your thoughts and I perhaps I could even start with the very last example since it's crystal clear.
ExcerciseCoach
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:53 pm

Hi everyone,

Last night I started by entering Tony Horton's Next Level (https://thetvdb.com/series/tony-hortons-next-level) and I think it is looking good. This series was published as 23 episodes over 2 seasons so I started with that first. How / where do I request a new publisher/network? I need to add "Gaiam Fit & TV" as they are the publisher (they have separated from Gaia itself).

I was reading the guidelines in the latest Bible and it says "An example of something that should NOT be added is P90X. It doesn't have the season/episode structure needed for a series record, nor is it a single standalone video that could be stored as a movie." While some series have this problem, P90X actually doesn't, thankfully. I went back and checked and there are 13 DVDs with 12 of them having the numbers stamped right on them. The first one is an introductory DVD. I have a picture of the package showing this, not sure how to upload it here, but I can if needed.

How to Bring it - "Watch this First" -- (Instructional DVD - not numbered)
DVD 01 Chest & Back
DVD 02 Plyometrics
DVD 03 Shoulders & Arms
DVD 04 Yoga X
DVD 05 Legs & Back
DVD 06 Kenpo X
DVD 07 X Stretch
DVD 08 Core Synergistics
DVD 09 Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
DVD 10 Back & Biceps
DVD 11 Cardio X
DVD 12 AB Ripper X

A few years later, the publisher introduced a set of 5 "Deluxe" DVDs called "P90X Plus" (like they did for every other progam also). In this case there were 5 DVDs.

I am not sure how you would handle this in a TV series, but it sounds to me like this could be entered as follows in TVDB:

Season 01: P90X Main Program
s01e01 How to Bring it
s01e02 Chest & Back
s01e03 Plyometrics
s01e04 Shoulders & Arms
s01e05 Yoga X
s01e06 Legs & Back
s01e07 Kenpo X
s01e08 X Stretch
s01e09 Core Synergistics
s01e10 Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
s01e11 Back & Biceps
s01e12 Cardio X
s01e13 AB Ripper X

Season 02: P90X Plus (In other programs these are called the "Deluxe" disks not "Plus" disks- same idea)
s02e01 Interval X Plus
s02e02 Kenpo Cardio Plus
s02e03 Upper Plus
s02e04 Total Body Plus
s02e05 Abs/Core Plus

So next I checked how the the publisher (Beachbody) ordered things on their streaming website. One can no longer buy these DVDs but one one can access all the workouts online. It turns out, the entered it the exact same way as above - as I am proposing! They have 2 sections, one called "P90X" and one called "P90X Plus" going down the page. Then under each heading horizontally scrolls to access the videos in that heading. So for section one there are 13 videos and section 2 has 5 videos. They follow the same pattern for all other workout programs. We could just have a rule that whatever pattern (order) the publisher follows for their streaming site, we follow. And whenever they have an additional section (these are in bold), we consider this another season. It turns out that I (and anybody can have) a free account on their streaming site that allows one to login and see how these videos are arranged - so moderators could verify and/or police things following this rule. We could consider the streaming order akin to the "airdate" order.

Going back to the DVD's, now because the intro DVD was not labelled, and the publisher chose to make it #1 in the sequence, it then becomes the case that the DVD that has #1 stamped on it actually became s01e02:

s01e01 How to Bring it
s01e02 Chest & Back (DVD stamped #1)
s01e03 Plyometrics (DVD Stamped #2)

Let's say a person accessing DVD actually wanted to order things in Plex or Emby the same as the DVDs, couldn't they use the "DVD" order instead? There is no clear answer as to if the "unlabelled" DVD is number zero or number 13, but let's say it's number 13 - then when entering P90X we could even put the DVD order there also, proactively. I wonder how you handle this in TV series - are there these "introductory" videos ever, and do the get considered #1, or the last one (at the end), or something else ? A "special" or number 0? Or we could just leave "DVD order blank" - maybe no one will ever need it, and if they do, they can enter it.

In any case, I think what I am saying is that there is a clear structure/sequence for P90X, and the publisher has already made the touch decision about the order to put things in, when they had to upload these DVDs to their own site.

I agree there may still be some fitness series where there is complete ambiguity about what DVD goes in what order, and perhaps the publisher does not offer them online (or is defunct), and in those cases the uploader would end up deciding some arbitrary order or sequence, then people would fight about the "correct" sequence, and this should be avoided!
ExcerciseCoach
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:10 pm

Hi - tonight I also entered "A Week of Hard Labor" and Sagi Kalev - it is a 5-day program (so there is only 1 season, and no instructional or getting started video), which makes it neat and clean: S1e1 is for Day 1, S1e2 is for Day 2, etc.

https://thetvdb.com/series/a-week-of-hard-labor
ExcerciseCoach
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:44 pm

Update: Today I have been working on setting up 2 TV series in Emby (Battlestar Galactica - 1978 and Wonder Woman -1974) so that I can become familiar with how TV series themselves are handled - including the various special cases that come up. Very helpful - in TV series there are many similar issues so it is good to learn how you handle these.

Also, I discovered that the Official Link to the streaming version of the P90X TV series is available publicly - not even a Free account is required:
https://www.beachbodyondemand.com/progr ... x/workouts

If you click on the above link - it shows what I was talking about - how the publisher orders the episodes. Each "season" has a bold header and all the videos lined up - and one needs to horizontally scroll to see all of them. So they actually have a 3rd season P90X Pro Team. I didn't know about those and have not seen those workouts (I believe these are streaming only there never were DVDs). But in any case, I would enter these as a 3rd season.

Ok thanks for any input you have.
ExcerciseCoach
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:49 pm

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:59 am

Hi, I need some guidance. I was waiting for people to respond, but now it is September and I'd like to start entering more workout series that are in my workout library - but following certain standards. I've been able to enter numerous workout series without any issues with the current guidelines, but I am stumped on P90X. Above I have shown that there is in fact there is a very clear and concrete order order that the episodes go in for P90X (in contrary to what the current Bible says), but there is 1 point holding me up entering it in. It has to do with the episode entitled "How to Bring it" -which is an intro to the series and describes how these workouts will proceed, how to do them, etc. I was thinking - if I could put this into the SPECIALS section, and then put all the ACTUAL workouts as season episodes 1-12, then the episode order for season 1 streaming EXACTLY matches the order of the 12 DVDs (which have the numbers stamped on them).

SPECIALS
s00e01 How to Bring it

SEASON 1
s01e01 Chest & Back
s01e02 Plyometrics
s01e03 Shoulders & Arms
s01e04 Yoga X
s01e05 Legs & Back
s01e06 Kenpo X
s01e07 X Stretch
s01e08 Core Synergistics
s01e09 Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
s01e10 Back & Biceps
s01e11 Cardio X
s01e12 AB Ripper X

Moderators - what do you think of this approach? Does this match what you do for TV shows - or is it similar?
I notice that for TV shows the emphasis is on the ACTUAL aired EPISODES and things like DVD specials or "content about the content" are not included. On the other hand, I see you have pretty strict rules about what can or cannot go into specials. You'd have to have a rule that any beginning tutorials or safety videos would go into specials --for exercise videos only.

I can tell you that across about 20 other workout series, even within the same publisher such as beachbody, sometimes they are inconsistent. Sometimes they include this initial video as #1 in the list of streaming episodes (and it is also on DVD, but maybe not numbered like the other DVD disks). Other times they have these videos for Safety or tutorial video on DVD but they ignore it or leave it out from the official videos that form part of the streaming version. For example Beach Body DVDs included a "Meat the team" intro video but it is missing from the streaming version. So not even publishers themselves are consistent. However once we decide hear we can follow a rule and enforce it.
annomatik
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:01 am

Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:17 pm

If it helps you, this is how I have set up P90X:

Season 01 - Muscle-Building
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance
Specials
tvshow.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x001 Chest & Back.avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x001 Chest & Back.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x002 Shoulders & Arms.avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x002 Shoulders & Arms.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x003 Legs & Back.avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x003 Legs & Back.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x004 Core Synergistics.avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x004 Core Synergistics.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x005 Chest, Shoulders & Triceps.avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x005 Chest, Shoulders & Triceps.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x006 Back & Biceps.avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x006 Back & Biceps.nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x007 Upper Plus (P90X+).avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x007 Upper Plus (P90X+).nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x008 Total Body Plus (P90X+).avi
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\001x008 Total Body Plus (P90X+).nfo
Season 01 - Muscle-Building\season01-poster.jpg
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x001 Plyometrics.avi
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x001 Plyometrics.nfo
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x002 Kenpo X.avi
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x002 Kenpo X.nfo
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x003 Kenpo Cardio Plus (P90X+).avi
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x003 Kenpo Cardio Plus (P90X+).nfo
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x004 Cardio X.avi
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x004 Cardio X.nfo
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x005 Interval X Plus (P90X+).avi
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\002x005 Interval X Plus (P90X+).nfo
Season 02 - Cross-Training & Fat-Burning\season02-poster.jpg
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x001 Yoga X.avi
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x001 Yoga X.nfo
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x002 X Stretch.avi
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x002 X Stretch.nfo
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x003 Ab Ripper X.avi
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x003 Ab Ripper X.nfo
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x004 Abs Core Plus (P90X+).avi
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\003x004 Abs Core Plus (P90X+).nfo
Season 03 - Flexibility & Balance\season03-poster.jpg
Specials\000x001 How To Bring It.avi
Specials\000x001 How To Bring It.nfo
Specials\000x002 Funny or Die Spoof.mp4
Specials\000x002 Funny or Die Spoof.nfo
Specials\season00-poster.jpg
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szsori
Site Admin
Posts: 2298
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:23 pm

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:01 am

I've done P90X and don't believe it fits our requirements for a season/episode structure. We want official structures, not arbitrary ones. The disc numbering for the P90X videos isn't season or episode numbers... it's simply to make them easier to find/reference within the schedule. At this point I think we're still disallowing P90X.
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