Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Discussion about the website and interfaces.
Report general bugs here.
Forum rules
DO NOT POST SERIES REQUESTS HERE.
Use the appropriate forum.
Requests posted here are subject to immediate deletion.
ivanmaxx
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:12 am

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby ivanmaxx » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:20 am

DarklightIndigo wrote:Oh yes, I'd forgotten how Kodi isn't adopted because they accept donations.

Donations are volunteer. A paying service is something completely different.

So, if people are willing to contribute financially for priority access to our servers - which is our right, and not even slightly prohibited by any reasonable interpretation of the law - that's an avenue that we'll have to consider.

I live in Europe, and even here, with our relaxed copyright laws, making a paying service with this kind of content without the corresponding licenses and permissions is absolutely illegal.

We're not talking about cutting off free access or artificially limiting data, we're talking about benefits to incentivise early adopters to bring up the bottom line. If those don't happen, and donations continue to suffer, you as an end user need to seriously consider what will happen to your metadata when the well runs dry. This is a project for passion first and foremost, but without cash or hardware donations to keep it running, it will continue to be a money pit until the founders can no longer sustain it.

I agree.

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm only saying that paying for user contributed content is not acceptable, at least for me. If something like this finally happens, I will move. And I know I will not the only one who will.

If the founders really need money, hardware or help, publish an announcement to let people know it.

devildant wrote:So I would be willing to pay a few dollars, if it helps to maintain this database

You don't need a paying service to do it. You don't need to break the service neutrality to help to maintain the project.

You can do it right now clicking here.

DarklightIndigo
Just zis guy, you know?
Posts: 7645
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:16 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby DarklightIndigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:34 am

Net neutrality only works when people contribute towards its maintenance. Those servers don't pay for themselves, and we've tried banners. The abuse and complaints related to those were nonstop. If people want to donate, they should, but we're not currently a registered charity so budget shortfalls don't work in our favour.

Also, it's not really a good idea to kick the "conversion" beehive - how much of that data do you think constitutes "original user submissions"?

The founders are notoriously difficult to get a straight answer from, and they try to keep difficulties in-house. I can respect that, but if the project is to make it another decade, we've gotta be much more open.
Strangers are just the friends we haven't met yet.

devildant
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby devildant » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:44 am

ivanmaxx wrote:
devildant wrote:So I would be willing to pay a few dollars, if it helps to maintain this database

You don't need a paying service to do it. You don't need to break the service neutrality to help to maintain the project.

You can do it right now clicking here.


By posting this message, I was sure someone would make that remark.
Donations of money I have already done, and I will give in the future.
This is not the issue. In view of the recurring problem of timeout, it is evident that there are server limitations.
Thetvdb works with donations, but in my opinion 99% of users do not participate.
I was just proposing to give privileges to users who wish to participate financially and regularly.
for example :
- prioritization of access
- more publishing rights
All this by leaving the free access to the api, the content ...
Regarding the law, you have to see but as the content remains open and free, I do not see any problem to offered a paying offer for more comfort.
And let's be honest, Man is egoistic why will he pay anything that is free ?? Somebody will give, but overall it's not enough (so we have timeout).

ivanmaxx
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:12 am

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby ivanmaxx » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:45 am

DarklightIndigo, I understand you. I know the headaches an open and collaborative project gives.

My point is: a paying service is not the way to follow. Users, contributors, sponsors and opensource communities will migrate to other services. TMDB, for example.

Ask for help to the community and people will respond. They always do.

You don't agree? OK, no problem ;)

DarklightIndigo wrote:how much of that data do you think constitutes "original user submissions"?

Extracted from the main web page:


So.... :?:

devildant wrote:Regarding the law, you have to see but as the content remains open and free, I do not see any problem to offered a paying offer for more comfort.

The content is not open and is not free, it belongs to copyright holders. There is a really big problem if you make a paid service without asking for permissions and paying license fees. As long as it remains as a user collaborative project, free and open, you can avoid fees and permissions (at least in most European countries, I don't know what DMCA says about fair use, etc) But a paid service is another story...

elprice7345
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 8:55 am

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby elprice7345 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:15 am

If I can interrupt the discussions about the future of TVDB, are there any updates on improving the slowness to the site as well as the API any time in the near future?

I'm still seeing slowness with both the API and the site.

My 2 cents on the future ... I already donate 10USD/month because I find the site invaluable, so some kind of preferential treatment for paying customers would be a nice acknowledgement for what I’m already doing.

Some kind of premium model would allow those who contribute to be rewarded in some way. I don’t support the idea of making all access paid, but perhaps some form of licensing fee for apps/users that demand more from TVDB would be appropriate.

devildant
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby devildant » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:19 am

elprice7345 wrote: I already donate 10USD/month because I find the site invaluable, so some kind of preferential treatment for paying customers would be a nice acknowledgement for what I’m already doing.

Some kind of premium model would allow those who contribute to be rewarded in some way. I don’t support the idea of making all access paid, but perhaps some form of licensing fee for apps/users that demand more from TVDB would be appropriate.

+1 This is exactly what I want to express :D
This reward system, can motivate people to give

ivanmaxx
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:12 am

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby ivanmaxx » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:12 pm

The API and the webpage run fine again.

elprice7345 wrote:some kind of preferential treatment for paying customers would be a nice acknowledgement for what I’m already doing

You are a donator, not a paying customer ;)

Anyway, I could agree with:

  • Limit by default the number of requests per second to avoid abuse and maintain the servers healthy
  • Allow only sequential and not parallel requests
  • Decrease or eliminate limits for donators

But... any limit should be reasonable. For example: not dropping requests and queuing them if they exceed the limits.

mach10
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:24 pm

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby mach10 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:27 pm

The API is working? This is news to me. I still can't pull new data for tv shows since 3/11/17, even updated the scraper plugin.

devildant
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby devildant » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:05 pm

ivanmaxx wrote:The API and the webpage run fine again.

elprice7345 wrote:some kind of preferential treatment for paying customers would be a nice acknowledgement for what I’m already doing

You are a donator, not a paying customer ;)

Anyway, I could agree with:

  • Limit by default the number of requests per second to avoid abuse and maintain the servers healthy
  • Allow only sequential and not parallel requests
  • Decrease or eliminate limits for donators
.


I understand your point of view.
And give an advantage to the person who made a donation is OK.
This kind of system can motivate people to donate.
:D

DarklightIndigo
Just zis guy, you know?
Posts: 7645
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:16 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Site Slowness - 2017/03/06

Postby DarklightIndigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:37 pm

Ivan, I think we're on the same page, especially regarding benefits for regular donators and queuing not outright dropping requests. If that happened this time, we basically had to do something to back off the server requests during the adjustments, or possibly deal with indefinite queues.
Strangers are just the friends we haven't met yet.