Special included in numbered season

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l0s3r
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:53 am

Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:58 am

https://www.thetvdb.com/series/the-pion ... seasons/23

7 A Very Brady Edition <-- this should be moved to specials and the subsequent episodes shifted

https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/the-p ... dy-edition (Season 0 = Specials)

It's listed under https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/the-p ... s/specials for further clarification
eherberg
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:39 pm

Just to follow-up on this (as it also impacts future Scripps/Discovery programs): The episode is going to stay as a regular episode and the special removed. Scripps/Discovery programs are always problematic and we already know (for those programs) that the show site itself is not to be used due to production numbering being used for episode numbers and not air dates. Yet - we will use those same sites for regular/special determination?

In this particular case - the episode that aired on Sept 28th ('A Very Brady Edition') aired in the program's normal time slot ... is represented on the network's own streaming site as a regular season episode, had metadata provided to listings service Gracenote as a regular season episode, and numbered as such through digital distribution platforms (Amazon, Google Play, YouTube, iTunes, Vudu, etc) as a regular episode. I should also point out that Rovi does not have it as a regular episode ... but doesn't have it as a special either. It has no designation whatsoever. Correction: Except on DirecTV listings (supplied by Rovi) where it has a regular season designation. But on other Rovi-supplied listings services, it has no designation what-so-ever. Thanks, Rovi ... :-)

We already know that their episode numbers are listed in production number order -- with their network streaming sites numbering episodes in airing order.

But does this also give evidence that their 'special' vs 'season' designations are likely based on production reasons also? Because of it being filmed on location at the HGTV Brady Renovation house - I'm sure production number wise that it was classified as a special (as it was not filmed on the normal set). But does that translate to being a 'special'?

As was seen in the site rules beginning-refresh - a network's own streaming site is now considered a network site (in large part due to Scripps/Discovery). We've discussed this internally - and a network's distribution platform along with a corroborating source (like Gracenote) can be used.

You may have already seen an admin using the Discovery Go site as a preferred source on another thread - and that will *for now* be extended to other Scripps/Discovery programs, as well. We'll see how it goes in practice and then discuss it further. It certainly can't be worse than the mess of specials out-of-the-blue or new 'seasons' being based on marketing tweets or the current reference people make to those network's sites and their production numbering.

In summary - for this example, there was nothing in the airing of the episode that pointed it to being a special. It aired normally ... didn't have special titles ... is represented nearly everywhere (including Food Network's own site to watch the episode) as a regular episode.

Production categorization on the Food Network site is not going to be used to over-rule the other classifications. (And yes - we know the Scene numbered it as a special. That does not factor in any decisions.)
l0s3r
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:53 am

Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:13 am

The Kitchen and The Pioneer Woman have followed production listing forever, which for these 2 shows matches sequential aired order as well (which isn't always the case for production order, hence why most shows tend to not follow Scripps production order but instead favor aired order, ie: Beat Bobby Flay)

As I said in my original comment, production listing has that episode as a special, so now TVDB is diverging from years of precedent for this show

I've said this before and I'll say it again.. the Discovery streaming sites should never be used for determining anything, they are consistently wrong and unreliable on many many levels

1. Wrong season #'s
2. Wrong episode #'s
3. Missing episode #'s
4. Missing episodes entirely
5. Duplicate episode #'s
6. Including specials as numbered episodes (case in point)
7. And worst of all.... changing things multiple times after the fact (I've witnessed this many times)
eherberg
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:56 pm

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:25 pm

Internally this was discussed and admins disagree with you. You may have noticed that the initial rules updates includes a source show's streaming service. You can find many instances in the past month where a senior admin is using the Discovery Go site as a preferred source for questions that have arisen on that network. Frankly - we don't see that the streaming sites for Discovery/Scripps are any worse than the show sites themselves. It's the Scripps/Discovery sites themselves that are mostly hot garbage with many more instances of changing things after the fact.

The acknowledgment that the sites themselves are production-based and have no bearing on airing order is already established -- so why then cling to only one element from those sites for production classification of specials? Especially when the network provides the contrary designation to every other point of consumption that they provide the show to? View it on your TV and check the guide metadata .. view it on their site .. view it on one of the distribution partners ... and they all have the same designation. Only the production site itself has it classified as different.

Besides -- we all know why there was a push to have this numbered as a special, and it's just because that's the way the Scene released it. Use XEM to bridge the gap if it helps. Or, even better, get the Scene to start numbering based on released metadata.

There are many instances in the past where obviously production classification was used ... and we can't change that. We can't check every contribution. All we can do is go-forward when something is found.

Note that after V3 re-launch - it may be possible with Flexible Seasons to have a 'production' numbering that is kept separate from the main numbering.
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